What’s your 3rd Favourite Colour?

37 comments assessment, Blogs, rants

Jul 05

"Dad, what's your 3rd favourite colour?" 

My youngest daughter is known for asking these types of questions. She has actually asked that one but usually the questions are more about a favourite part of a movie, what's your favourite vacation spot, etc. That's pretty typical for kids and even adults. We love to order and rank things. I have many favourites. But when does it go too far? Are these lists of favourites personal or is their value in crowd sourcing our favourites?

I think there is a place for ranking. But not for everything. 

Trip Advisor is a great example of crowd sourcing and rating. It may not be definitive but provides a useful beginning in making a financial investment. Digg and Youtube are fine examples of places that use rating systems to determine popularity but not necessarily quality. That can be useful but not definitive. 

It starts to bother me however when we feel compelled to create list of greatness when it comes to people who, because of their generosity have chosen to use their cognitive surplus to share online. These folks, and I'm mostly speaking about educators, have joined a revolution of sharing and connecting and have worked together, mostly for free, to learn together. That's pretty darn cool. Deciding to rank and rate them is a little like having a potluck dinner and then having a vote at the end as to who made the best meal. What would be the point other than to single out a few and let others feel less than worthy. 

I love the social nature of the web. Anyone who knows me gets that. I also like recognition. I like to contribute and like to know I'm helping folks. I get that recognition from trackbacks, comments, Retweets, mentions, links and thank yous. I know how important they are to me and try to respond in kind, partly because it's natural and partly because it's the right thing to do and partly because it's how all this will continue to work.

I've been on a few lists of best blogs or whatever. I'll admit, it's flattering but I can't tell you how many times these lists are derived by a single person and looking deeper at the lists, many blogs appear that are inactive or are just plain bad. They always leave out many that should be included and in the end do little than cause controversy. I haven't linked to one of those lists in years. I appreciate a thoughtful comment much more than making a list. 

I do think that those who create the lists or awards mean well. I'm sure they either want to raise the profile of others or give recognition to those that have influenced or supported their learning. That's cool. But I think we've now reached a new way of filtering content.  Dave Weinberger talks about the power of folksnomy, tagging and personalized sorting. This is what makes the web great. Yet, our natural instinct is to rate and order and better yet,get others to agree with our rankings. I'd love great work to be promoted and shared more  but I'd like to see that done by using the tools of democracy that the web offers. Retweet like crazy, leave a comment, tell somebody but leave the rankings alone. 

We live in a metric obsessed world. Moreover, our education system is based on the ranking and ordering of students. Who's the top of the class? Who had the highest mark? Anyone involved in education know how silly that is and how it often fails to recognize many students who deserve recognition. We know our measuring tools are flawed and that at the end of the day we want our students to learn because learning is life and rankings aren't all that important. In the same way that ranking damages and can discourage those who don't get noticed, I worry we do the same for those who are just beginning to discover the power and value of sharing online. I can't imagine any teacher who introduced their students to blogging and sharing online start to have students rate and rank each other. It's hard enough to be transparent and open with your learning. To start to sort out the best from the worst borders on offensive if not unethical. If it's wrong to do with students, why would we do it with each other?  I'd hope that as educators we could model sharing, celebrating and learning that doesn't have to classified as "best", because best implies there's worst.  

This has largely been a think aloud post. I'm up for questions, clarifications or disagreements.

Related Posts

  • http://www.lifewithl.wordpress.com Ann Leaness

    I concur. I love the organic nature of sharing that I have discovered on twitter. Of course that is easy for me to say since I am sure I will never have to worry about being listed. Funny how that works though isn't it. For some, the more recognition, the more need to maintain a best position. For what though? What is the reward? Is there a reward?

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      Ann,
      That’s the point. You dont’ share because you’re trying to make a list. I’ve had a similar conversation with my kids about grades. They get good grades and crave high marks but I worry they’re missing out on loving learning. In a few years, those grades/rankings won’t mean anything but the learning and sharing is gold.

  • http://www.acelfresno.org Dave Childers

    Dean- great reflection.  As I have mentioned before, I think your stance on grading is pure genius for many of the same reasons that you lay out here to argue against ordering and ranking.  Just the idea that anyone feels that they have read every education blog enough times to rank one against another – or that their lens is so perfect that those rankings are anything close to definitive – it is very flawed.  Surely there are far better ways to provide recognition for the outstanding work that is being done online by great educators.  Let's leave rankings for sports and the military and celebrate our successes by adding to the breadth of ideas and work that are out there.

  • http://bengrey.com/blog Ben Grey

    The answer is grey.

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      You mean gray.

      • http://bengrey.com/blog Ben Grey

        You mean favorite.
        Ben Grey´s last [type] ..Another Beginning

  • http://avenue4learning.com Michelle Baldwin

    I agree with you on ranking blogs or Twitter lists, etc. It's pointless and makes many who blog feel like they are not worthy if they aren't on a "Best Of" list. The whole purpose of blogging is to provide a place for reflection, learning, sharing, etc. While I'll admit I've seen some bad blogs (no sense of purpose, bad layout, etc.), I've read some that are really helpful to me, but have never seen the light of day with a larger audience. 
    I will support projects that promote or feature blogs that maybe wouldn't have been noticed otherwise, but I tend to frown on those that liken blogging to Prom King or Queen. Just because you're the most popular (in this case, have the most readers and comments) doesn't mean you're worthy. 
    Oh, and my 3rd favorite color is black. Thanks for asking. 

  • Hadass Eviatar

    Thanks, Dean. I’ve always disliked awards and rankings, especially of students. I don’t read those top-whatever posts, preferring to follow the recommendations of people I respect. That means that if you retweet somebody’s blog, I will probably go look at it. I agree about appreciating the effort and time people put into sharing, but not by ranking.

    I hope all this agreement doesn’t put me firmly in the echo chamber, LOL. Will be interesting to read any disagreements!

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      I do hope others will share some alternative views. I think in some respects it’s a matter of using “a” or using “the”. “A” list of your favourite blogs or educators is reasonable. It’s shared in the light of personal preference. But when it moves to “The” list, that’s when I have concerns. It comes across as authoritative and definite and some type of official ranking.

      • Megan F

        I agree that the essential distinction is between “a list” and “the list”, or as someone below put it, “great blogs” versus “the best blogs”. I am just starting to find my way through the blogosphere, looking for blogs that will be meaningful to me and will inspire reflection in my own blog – as I hope to model to my students. So I find lists of great blogs to be extremely helpful recommendations, at least as a place to start.

        When someone claims to be creating “the” list of the “best” blogs, however, it comes across to me as an attempt to set themselves up as the authority and prove that their opinion is more valid than mine. I think of all the “best 100 movies/books/actors/songs of the year/decade/century/millennium” lists we are subjected to in December every year (especially in 1999!). How many others have had this experience – I scan the list for MY favorite and when it’s not there, I wonder what was not so good about it! I substitute the list-maker’s opinion for my own!

        Your post has me thinking about ranking in many other situations. My school’s yearbook includes student votes on teachers – loudest, best dressed, most organized, etc. And of course – favorite! Only two teachers can be the favorites each year – and all it does is make the rest of us feel unrecognized. How terrible that we do this same thing to students.

        In an encouraging move, my school eliminated class rank from students’ transcripts this year. It was done because so many of our students are high-performing that a student with an A- or B+ average would be ranked in the middle of the class – so it was hurting our students in college admissions. But maybe it will also help us shift our thinking away from ranking. Maybe revolutionizing our awards night is next!

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention What’s your 3rd Favourite Colour? «Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech -- Topsy.com

  • http://www.rushtheiceberg.com Stephen Davis

    I love the line, “That can be useful but not definitive.”

  • http://jnmfly.edublogs.org Jamie (AKA @fiteach)

    Thanks for writing this. I have always felt uncomfortable with ranking things that are meant to be shared or meant as personal reflection and learning. My question when it comes to education related blogs/posts/tweets that have used the word BEST has always been “best for whom?” Now, on the other hand, lists of “Great blogs/people to follow with a focus on ________” have been very helpful to me, and I imagine others who, like me, are just starting our journey in the realm of Twitter and blogs as guides of good places to start. There is just no reason to use the word BEST.
    Jamie (AKA @fiteach)´s last [type] ..The bookaday challenge

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      Thanks Jamie,
      I also think about blogging with our students. Would we do this with them? I’m thinking most teachers would not want to start having students rate each other’s blogs. It’s hard enough to be transparent with your learning, then to move to rate and rank takes the joy and spirit of sharing out of the process. The more I think about it, the more it seems wrong.

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention What’s your 3rd Favourite Colour? «Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech -- Topsy.com

  • http://xmisterparkx.org Paul

    Timely post, Dean, seeing as how most of likely just suffered through our schools’ awards nights. These awards events have historically done exactly what you alluded to — ranked the few, excluded the many, and killed learning for learning’s sake.

    I would love to explore Joe Bower’s concept of ‘unconditional recognition’ and rather than hand out a few exclusive awards, unconditionally recognize the achievements, strengths, contributions, and interests of all students.

    My only reservation would be that these types of initiatives run the risk of becoming like a summer camp’s “everybody gets a trophy day”. But in the hands of capable educators, I suspect that wouldn’t happen.

    Dave – I wish I could counter your point about leaving it to the military (I’m a part-time soldier) but despite making great strides in our education and training philosophy, for some reason the Canadian military still ranks and awards soldiers. Ironic, to say the least. But that’s a whole other discussion.
    Paul´s last [type] ..It’s the end of literacy as we know it…and I feel fine

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      Paul,

      I’m not sure I’ve fully figured out the awards, school thing but I am questioning it.

      The difference about the web is we’re all here of our own free will. It’s been built link by link, person by person in the spirit of sharing and transparency. That’s a powerful and delicate thing. It’s like ranking volunteerism. I think there are ways in which the cream rises to the top organically and naturally. We don’t need to structure it. I think we also learn what we like and prefer and don’t need any list to help us.

  • Jerelyne (@jneman)

    As a person who works with educators in professional learning courses, I often get asked how do you start building your PLN/finding good blogs/etc. While I have my favorites that I name, I often send them to the “top educational blog sites”, tell them they need read and make their own judgements on who they want to add to their circle of learning. I appreciated your comment ” “A” list of your favourite blogs or educators is reasonable. It’s shared in the light of personal preference. But when it moves to “The” list, that’s when I have concerns” Making me think of how I frame my conversations differently with those starting out.

  • http://georgecouros.ca George Couros

    Dean…I totally agree with you. Although it is flattering to be recognized in such a way, it sometimes disheartens the ones that are putting forth the effort and not getting the same value. I find it interesting that a lot of the same people that complain about awards being in their school also showcase that they have been recognized for an edublog award. As I write this, I am not sure if I was nominated for something that I would not show or discuss it myself. But we would not want our students posting on their workspace “I am an ‘A’ student” as we would wonder what is their motive in school; learning or recognition?

    Thanks for the insightful post; I appreciate how you write. You are on my list for top Shareski bloggers!

  • http://www.alan-stange.ca Alan Stange

    Our predilection for ranking everything is pervasive. Like most teachers I abhor establishing favorites in the classroom. I hope that most teachers recognize that despite their best efforts they still do so. Certainly my students eventually identify those students who connect with me best. What they don’t always understand is that ‘favorite’ shifts with purpose and context, and that it is ephemeral.

    Favorites lose their zest after a steady diet. Sushi was a favorite lunch this year. I think I overdid it finally. My favorite colour pallet is browns of varied shades. It is not my uniform and always seems to be complemented by a host of third favorite colours. This makes a credible analogy to blogging. I try to follow the intellectual journey of a number of people. I don’t tread too closely. It might be better to say in my own wandering path across the intellectual landscape my path intersects theirs with frequency. Often they lead me to other intersections. At best ‘favorites’ seems to really mean those we are most familiar with or have the most affinity to.

  • http://www.alan-stange.ca Alan Stange

    By the way, my inner communist is apposed to ranking students by award or grade. I might rank a collection of prospective laptops for purchase. I would not do such a thing to imply value on individuals. That is generally about distributing scarce resources. Rank the blogs so you can allocate time to read and reflect; rank the students for opportunity and reward. The latter really makes me uncomfortable.

  • Angie

    Thanks for raising the issue of instrinsic motivation. I agree with your ranking comments, but disagree with your potluck comment. EVERY potluck I attend, especially school ones are ranked. I find potlucks more stressful then preparing a full meal. I play into it each time, stressing over the dish, always homemade, never purchased. We must stop this madness.

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      Angie, are you saying that individual contributions at your potlucks are ranked? If so, that’s just whacked.

  • http://www.timchilders.com Tim Childers

    Dean, thank you for this timely post. I have been having discussions with some other educators about the self-ranking that comes at such conferences at ISTE, and was about to write my thoughts in a blog titled, “Rock Stars, Groupies, and Roadies.” (I would place myself in the last category). You’ve caught me up short, and, even though my post would be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I realize that the entire ranking of attendees into these categories puts me into a group that might like to feel better about myself if I can just pigeon hole everyone else. Thanks for helping me begin to realize that the road to self-actualization really does start with “self” and not our feelings, understandings, or comprehensions of others. Thanks again.

  • http://adventurousedtech.blogspot.com/ Joanna Sanders Bobiash

    Great food for thought Dean. I agree about the fact that we are all here on our own free will and these “Best of” lists aren’t the greatest way to go because they are the best “according to who?”. I do appreciate finding new blogs or sites to check out from people’s “favourites” (like Jaimie already mentioned.) Maybe we should be making a better effort of promoting “my newest finds lists for ___” or something along these lines. I sometimes think it is important to give people a place to get started and the “best” lists are a place to start in a huge sea of information.

    Some of the comments made me think about how we would treat our student bloggers. I would have to say that my students have all blogged for the past three years and I have highlighted or used their online writing (just like you may do if you it was a piece of writing on paper) to show the class a good example or model of how to write a blog post or how to leave a good comment or good feedback. It is a way we all learn and encourage each other to do better. This doesn’t mean that I put their post on the top and say it is the best. Instead, I just pull up the blogs and have everyone look at them together on the big screen. My students have become better writers and encourage each other to do better by leaving better comments and feedback.
    Joanna Sanders Bobiash´s last [type] ..Wednesday Closing Keynote at ISTE 2010

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      I think the student analogy is a fair one. The difference is that your students have no choice and your task is to help them be better. To that end, your feedback is more directed and specific and yet you walk a fine line between sharing exemplary work and singling out individuals as better or worse. Most kids figure that out without any official distinction.

      The difference here is that you and I participate because we want to. I like the idea of sharing others work but not by ranking them. There are so many ways to share and promote the work of others without getting into a hierarchy. The hierarchy does more harm than good.

  • http://edVisioned.ca Andrew Forgrave

    Regarding the potluck thing, under reconsideration, I think Angie has a point. While I’ve never attended a potluck where judges held up numbers (8.5, 9.0, 9.5) after each dish was placed on the table, I have walked down the buffet and seen how previous folks ahead in the line have “voted.” I’m sure other readers have noticed the dish or dishes that have yet to receive any votes — do you intentionally support that participant with a “starter” vote? (I realize some folks may always lead the pack when the saran wrap is removed, and thus miss out on the early voting results, but they’re often in a good position to assess the full results of that first round as they head back for seconds.)

    As for the list issue — I agree, we have a built-in tendency to value authoritative lists, and working to help learners to develop additional strategies/environments for making decisions is a good thing.
    Andrew Forgrave´s last [type] ..The Bricked-In School Box

    • Dean Shareski

      There’s always value placed on content and experiences but when we create explicit rankings, we are singling out the best form the worst. Food, art and even a blog or blog post are creative gestures that don’t need to be attached to a ranking in order to be valuable. When you do that you tell someone outside of that ranking that their contribution is less valuable.

      We’ve been doing things like this in schoos for a long time. Why is it that so few kids outside of kindergarten don’t consider themselves artists?

  • http://noeltigers.com wmchamberlain

    I believe the next iteration of Digg will be a great tool for “folksonomy” The way I understand it, we will be able to follow friends on Digg and set up a more personal network where we can share links easily and the digging by those we follow will push up the best. Obviously this can help let the cream rise, but as usual there is the problem that living in an echo chamber can bring.

    • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

      Bill,

      Those are the kinds of tools that support a democratic web. We always will choose and share what we like but we do so in a way that is personal and less definitive.

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention What’s your 3rd Favourite Colour? «Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech -- Topsy.com

  • http://www.teachpaperless.com Shelly Blake-Plock

    Just there in the screen-clipping you used as an example, the “50 Best…” lists look like they are being posted by ad/company/spam-type sites; and certainly, a “50 Best…” list is a great way to get a bunch of hits on your site.

    One of the things we need to teach our kids and teachers is to be actually wary of any type of online list like this and to think about where we are getting our information — and why it is there.

    - Shelly

  • Mathew

    Great post…the sixth best I’ve read today.

  • http://concretekax.blogspot.com/ concretekax

    I have been chewing on this all day and it feels more complicated for me. I think that ordering and ranking is a natural human trait that we do non-stop to objects and yes people. I agree with Angie that potlucks are judged by the participants. You know you are a winner if everyone says “who made this?” and wants the recipe.

    As far as lists of blogs goes, they are everywhere. Does it really matter if some one calls it “a” list or “the” list? It sounds like splitting hairs to me. I have a list of my favorite blogs on my blog. When I first started reading blogs similar lists on others’ blogs was how I found good blogs. Are these lists really that much different than the ones you showed above? I don’t think so.

    I remember the first time I “made” one of these lists. I was excited. Then I realized that I did not get more visitors to my blog and that it was as Shelly mentions just an “ad” to drive hits on that blog. Now I could care less. I think anyone who reads those lists with an sense of critical thinking will recognize those lists as that. So those rankings really do not bother me or impress me either.

    What is really bothering me today is the idea of ranking people. We do it in everything: first string, second chair, valedictorian, smartest, fastest, etc. While it sounds good to say that we should never rank people or students is that possible/desirable? I have no problem with eliminating grades, but outside of school does not the world work on rankings? I am not arguing that ranking people is ideal or good but that it exists everywhere. Is it wrong that we recognize the top students every year? I am not saying that they are the smartest, but perhaps the best workers or maybe just the best gamers of the system???
    concretekax´s last [type] ..Garbage Warrior

  • http://ideasandthoughts.org Dean Shareski

    Thanks for the push back Michael. I hope I’m not splitting hairs but I can see your point. I think my point has more to do about the nature of the web and social media and might not be the same in other contexts.

    The potluck example is as close one. The ranking or rating you suggest is pretty natural and doesn’t necessarily suggest the other contributions are bad. We notice things that are unusual or stand out. We do that for our work online as well. I don’t have a problem with recognizing and acknowledging preference and excellence and sharing those preferences. That’s how the web is built. But it’s organic, not contrived, not done by ranking in a list of 10 or 100. Those types of distinctions to more to create an unhealthy competition rather than a spirit of sharing. We wouldn’t want to have to rate the potluck dishes from 1-10. In that example, the person that brings the pickles or buns will likely never get acknowledged but yet should be recognized for their contribution as much as the person who brings the main course. It’s a little like the long tail theory. Again, in certain circles people are ranked but I hope it’s in things like sports or competitions where the rules are clearly laid out. Very few start a blog to try and be the best or gain some prize. If recognition comes as a result of links and retweets, I think that’s what this is about.

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention What’s your 3rd Favourite Colour? «Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech -- Topsy.com

  • https://twitter.com/geofferykehrig Looking + Learning

    Great insight and reflection. I really appreciate the “thinking out loud” approach of your post.

    I’ve been wondering about a relatively connected issue … The general etiquette in our society regarding saying “Thank You” or acknowledging a contribution.

    + + +

    Maybe …

    The past while, I’ve been re-examining my reasons for giving and the work I do.

    I like the attention I get on a job well done … but is this what I’m seeking?

    Do I get upset when someone hasn’t thanked me?

    Do I even have a right to be upset?

    Lately, I’ve started to appreciate the entire concept of anonymous donours (giving with no ego, identity or self-seeking motive).

    + + +

    What are my “real” motives?

    Maybe an anonymous donour gives because they truly care and want to make a difference?

    Maybe this is what’s really important?

    Maybe this is the “ideal” model for giving in our society?

    And maybe anonymous contributions are also the proper way to “thank” others?

    And maybe saying a private or public “thank you” doesn’t really matter?

    After all, if we expect a “thank you” or acknowledgment — maybe we are giving, working and contributing for the wrong reasons?

    + + +

    For example, is Pepsi’s “gifts” (millions of dollars) towards education a SELFLESS act? … Or merely SELFISH, smart advertising?

    By targeting education, maybe Pepsi is potentially targeting “the next generation” of our children as future consumers to their unhealthy product?

    It is well known that Soda Pop drinks are one of the leading instigators of obesity in North America.

    In a health-related/lifestyle comparison, maybe it’s like cigarettes advertising to our young children?

    Are they really helping or exploiting these children?

    Morally, how should we act or what is the “proper” thing to say in these instances?

    Does Pepsi really deserve a “Thank You” or acknowledgment?

    If individuals or companies are looking for a “Thank You,” acknowledgement, or great advertising opportunities — maybe they’re truly “Giving” for the wrong reasons?

    Ethically, if Pepsi (and other large corporations) really cared about our children’s education — maybe they should be anonymous donours?

    I’m not saying they should … But maybe they should consider it?

    It could be a viable possibility.

    It’s a shame we don’t hear about the instances when others have chosen to contribute this way.

  • https://twitter.com/geofferykehrig Looking + Learning

    To connect the last post … It would be nice to have opportunities to give and thank anonymously in all contexts of life (including classrooms, social media and the web).

    Honest words and appreciation are nice — but personally I find rankings too commodifying and should be left to business settings.

    I also feel the educational realm should aim for idealism.

    How do you quantify a human interpretation that is often subjective (especially the arts) and expect agreement on a universal level?

    Ranks, lists and awards are often seen as demeaning in some artistic circles (Pearl Jam is a pop culture example).

    Imagine how mind bending it would be if the winners of the grammies and oscars were never announced?

    I think the world would benefit more from this strange ambiguity.

    Imagine the great debates and real dialogue?

    okay … blah blah blah … going to bed.

  • http://www.insurancedump.com Mark P

    love the line, “That can be useful but not definitive.”

  • http://learningearnings.com David H. Wilkins

    The ranking topic is a touchy subject. At the request of schools we added the ability to turn of ranking in our games on Learning Earnings. Most schools don’t care, but we have a few that don’t want the rankings.

  • http://www.dailygrommet.com Tori

    This is a great thread. There is something to say about folks who do not feel they can learn from a smaller/less-poplar blogger or thinker. Sometimes it is the more quiet thought-provoking folks who actually have the most innovative ideas.
    Tori´s last [type] ..Orange Whip