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	<title>Comments on: The Continuing Saga</title>
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	<description>Learning stuff since 1964</description>
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		<title>By: Ryan Nickell</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31598</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Nickell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31598</guid>
		<description>I think that people are starting to realize that methods such as using fear and blocking sites are not real solutions to internet safety.  We need to teach kids responsible use.  This is a concept our school has struggled with.  Large thanks to Gary Ball, we have started to believe that making our students responsible and accountable at school will make them responsible and accountable at home...if we use fear and block them from accessing certain sites who will help them develop their skills as responsible users when they are at home, alone?  I found Socol&#039;s idea of losing credibility very interesting...I had never thought about this side of the situation before - thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that people are starting to realize that methods such as using fear and blocking sites are not real solutions to internet safety.  We need to teach kids responsible use.  This is a concept our school has struggled with.  Large thanks to Gary Ball, we have started to believe that making our students responsible and accountable at school will make them responsible and accountable at home&#8230;if we use fear and block them from accessing certain sites who will help them develop their skills as responsible users when they are at home, alone?  I found Socol&#8217;s idea of losing credibility very interesting&#8230;I had never thought about this side of the situation before &#8211; thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech » EdTech Posse 5.4 Grumpy Old Digital Residents</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31583</link>
		<dc:creator>Ideas and Thoughts from an EdTech » EdTech Posse 5.4 Grumpy Old Digital Residents</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31583</guid>
		<description>[...] &#171;&#160;The Continuing Saga       Apr 24 2009 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &laquo;&nbsp;The Continuing Saga       Apr 24 2009 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ian H.</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31581</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31581</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s shameful that the Global news segment did not include any of the information from the other perspective, but I guess &quot;No one&#039;s ever been harmed by putting photos on the internet&quot; doesn&#039;t make nearly as sensational a story as &quot;Teens adding random strangers to their Facebook profiles.&quot;

Is the point of fear-mongering to have them quit using social networks, or to educate them to their correct and appropriate usages?

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Ian H.s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marturia.net/blog/?p=3783&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ridiculous ruling&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s shameful that the Global news segment did not include any of the information from the other perspective, but I guess &#8220;No one&#8217;s ever been harmed by putting photos on the internet&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make nearly as sensational a story as &#8220;Teens adding random strangers to their Facebook profiles.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is the point of fear-mongering to have them quit using social networks, or to educate them to their correct and appropriate usages?</p>
<p><abbr><em>Ian H.s last blog post..<a href="http://www.marturia.net/blog/?p=3783" rel="nofollow">Ridiculous ruling</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Ira Socol</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31577</link>
		<dc:creator>Ira Socol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31577</guid>
		<description>Dean,

I think that the most crucial thing we can maintain with our children, with our students, is trust. And I am consistently shocked at how quickly so many educators and police officers - and I have been both - are willing to throw that trust away. 

We so often hear these &quot;authorities&quot; tell kids of the huge dangers in alcohol, sex, drugs, and now facebook, we exaggerate in such gigantic ways, and kids being kids, kids being experimenters who test things out, they discover the exaggeration very quickly and decide that adults are either clueless or are outright liars. And once they&#039;ve decided that, we have lost our ability to influence them. 

So in this case the counselor has taught the students that he/she is a liar who is willing to cheat to make a point, and who perceives his or herself as above the law. The police officer has confirmed for the students the worst stereotype of the thug cop willing to suppress all teenage fun. The parents went home that night, repeated the words of these misguided adults to their kids, and now everyone - counselor, cop, and parents have lost all credibility with these students. 

We know there are dangers everywhere in the world, but we also know that statistically the most dangerous spot for any child is their own home, and the people most dangerous to any child turns out to be their own parents. I&#039;m not suggesting that we terrify our children by exaggeration those facts either. But I am suggesting, as you do, that we invest our energies in the real danger areas, while we work to prepare our kids for their connected future by modelling the kinds of behavior which provide both outreach and relatively smart behavior. 

Crossing the street is potentially life threatening, but we don&#039;t lock our kids inside. We teach them to look both ways, and we prove to them that we are teaching them the true things by looking both ways ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean,</p>
<p>I think that the most crucial thing we can maintain with our children, with our students, is trust. And I am consistently shocked at how quickly so many educators and police officers &#8211; and I have been both &#8211; are willing to throw that trust away. </p>
<p>We so often hear these &#8220;authorities&#8221; tell kids of the huge dangers in alcohol, sex, drugs, and now facebook, we exaggerate in such gigantic ways, and kids being kids, kids being experimenters who test things out, they discover the exaggeration very quickly and decide that adults are either clueless or are outright liars. And once they&#8217;ve decided that, we have lost our ability to influence them. </p>
<p>So in this case the counselor has taught the students that he/she is a liar who is willing to cheat to make a point, and who perceives his or herself as above the law. The police officer has confirmed for the students the worst stereotype of the thug cop willing to suppress all teenage fun. The parents went home that night, repeated the words of these misguided adults to their kids, and now everyone &#8211; counselor, cop, and parents have lost all credibility with these students. </p>
<p>We know there are dangers everywhere in the world, but we also know that statistically the most dangerous spot for any child is their own home, and the people most dangerous to any child turns out to be their own parents. I&#8217;m not suggesting that we terrify our children by exaggeration those facts either. But I am suggesting, as you do, that we invest our energies in the real danger areas, while we work to prepare our kids for their connected future by modelling the kinds of behavior which provide both outreach and relatively smart behavior. </p>
<p>Crossing the street is potentially life threatening, but we don&#8217;t lock our kids inside. We teach them to look both ways, and we prove to them that we are teaching them the true things by looking both ways ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Sking</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31575</link>
		<dc:creator>Sking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31575</guid>
		<description>Dean, I followed your tweets last night with some curiousity and found myself wondering what kind of conference were you attending.   It certainly did not sound like something you would be happy with.   Anyway, you pose the question, &quot;How do we shift the conversation away from fear.&quot;   As a recent convert to putting myself out there in the cyber world, I know the answer is education.   I was hesitant to put my identity out there at first when I started Alec&#039;s class, but I quickly realized the strangers I was meeting were kind people, who were willing to share what they knew with no expectation of getting something in return.   They seemed very interested in helping me with my own learning and I am learning new things every day as a result.  What could be wrong with that?

The questions I am asking is how do we make classes like the ones you and Alec  teach mandatory at the college and university levels?   How do we get Saskatchewan curriculum writers to recognize the importance of including digital literacy into all courses?   How do we get teachers to recognize they need to seek out professional development in this area if they are uncomfortable with it or risk being made redundant?   

I understand the fear though; it is media sensationalism at its best.   One horror story of an internet creep, gets far more press than things that really affect a lot of young people; we don&#039;t even pay that much attention to poverty and what it puts kids through!   For that matter, we would be better off talking to our students and parents more about the dangers of sugar and type 2 diabetes.   That is a far greater danger than posting a few comments or pictures on the internet!

Thanks for sharing your story; it has me thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean, I followed your tweets last night with some curiousity and found myself wondering what kind of conference were you attending.   It certainly did not sound like something you would be happy with.   Anyway, you pose the question, &#8220;How do we shift the conversation away from fear.&#8221;   As a recent convert to putting myself out there in the cyber world, I know the answer is education.   I was hesitant to put my identity out there at first when I started Alec&#8217;s class, but I quickly realized the strangers I was meeting were kind people, who were willing to share what they knew with no expectation of getting something in return.   They seemed very interested in helping me with my own learning and I am learning new things every day as a result.  What could be wrong with that?</p>
<p>The questions I am asking is how do we make classes like the ones you and Alec  teach mandatory at the college and university levels?   How do we get Saskatchewan curriculum writers to recognize the importance of including digital literacy into all courses?   How do we get teachers to recognize they need to seek out professional development in this area if they are uncomfortable with it or risk being made redundant?   </p>
<p>I understand the fear though; it is media sensationalism at its best.   One horror story of an internet creep, gets far more press than things that really affect a lot of young people; we don&#8217;t even pay that much attention to poverty and what it puts kids through!   For that matter, we would be better off talking to our students and parents more about the dangers of sugar and type 2 diabetes.   That is a far greater danger than posting a few comments or pictures on the internet!</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your story; it has me thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31574</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31574</guid>
		<description>I think your message is clear and will be welcomed by many.  It needs to be heard.  Today I walked my daughter to school for Earth Day.  There was a sign in front of the school stating &quot;Walk to school today for Earth Day.&quot;  There are three known registered sex-offenders along the walking route to school.  I wondered whether this one act of announcing this activity was potentially more dangerous than any online social networking.  Aside from the registered sex-offenders along the route, I&#039;m certain there are plenty more dangers parents choose to ignore, because they are not as hyped as much the Internet.  I feel schools have chosen fear-mongering as a means of limiting their own liability and avoiding community collaboration.  Sad indeed.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Jens last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Injenuity/~3/7WAd51VX8LM/740&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I Have Something to Say&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your message is clear and will be welcomed by many.  It needs to be heard.  Today I walked my daughter to school for Earth Day.  There was a sign in front of the school stating &#8220;Walk to school today for Earth Day.&#8221;  There are three known registered sex-offenders along the walking route to school.  I wondered whether this one act of announcing this activity was potentially more dangerous than any online social networking.  Aside from the registered sex-offenders along the route, I&#8217;m certain there are plenty more dangers parents choose to ignore, because they are not as hyped as much the Internet.  I feel schools have chosen fear-mongering as a means of limiting their own liability and avoiding community collaboration.  Sad indeed.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Jens last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Injenuity/~3/7WAd51VX8LM/740" rel="nofollow">I Have Something to Say</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Shared Items From Google Reader - April 23, 2009 &#171; timlauer.org</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2009/04/22/the-continuing-saga/comment-page-1/#comment-31573</link>
		<dc:creator>Shared Items From Google Reader - April 23, 2009 &#171; timlauer.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/?p=813#comment-31573</guid>
		<description>[...] The Continuing Saga [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Continuing Saga [...]</p>
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