Comments on: Personal Laptops in Schools http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/ Learning stuff since 1964 Sun, 05 Feb 2012 17:09:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: What happens when kids want their devices connected? | Ideas and Thoughts http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-45808 What happens when kids want their devices connected? | Ideas and Thoughts Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:32:36 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-45808 [...] blogged about this before and it’s not going away anytime soon. Today Clarence “twitted” [...] [...] blogged about this before and it’s not going away anytime soon. Today Clarence “twitted” [...]

]]> By: Allison http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-26748 Allison Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:37:33 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-26748 Our teachers are not being issued laptops but want to connect and administration wants them to. OK, once the machine is "blessed" by meeting the virus protection, update requirments, etc; how do we protect ourselves should something happen to the machine? As a personal machine, who is responsible for troubleshooting when things are not working quite right, etc. Has anyone written a "disclaimer" -- we would like teachers to sign something before configuring their laptops to work with the network. Our teachers are not being issued laptops but want to connect and administration wants them to. OK, once the machine is “blessed” by meeting the virus protection, update requirments, etc; how do we protect ourselves should something happen to the machine? As a personal machine, who is responsible for troubleshooting when things are not working quite right, etc. Has anyone written a “disclaimer” — we would like teachers to sign something before configuring their laptops to work with the network.

]]> By: Allie http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-25035 Allie Thu, 05 Apr 2007 18:31:48 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-25035 I got to a school where all 7th graders can have laptops and i think that they are a distraction , but cool. We have specific rules and what not........ i still wish we could do more on them. o well. we do have internet access on them and it is cool and we can take them home. fun? comment I got to a school where all 7th graders can have laptops and i think that they are a distraction , but cool. We have specific rules and what not…….. i still wish we could do more on them. o well. we do have internet access on them and it is cool and we can take them home. fun? comment

]]> By: Kate http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-9359 Kate Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:07:57 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-9359 I was hoping someone had found a good resolution for this ever-increasing issue. In my school district, we have a form the student has to sign verifing they have all the latest updates and virus software, but they are also required to hand over the laptop to the tech so we can check it from the District's perspective. This only works, though, if the student feels like following procedures and asking for assistance. Another problem with this could be any future problems with that student's laptop could be attributed back to the tech. I was hoping someone had found a good resolution for this ever-increasing issue. In my school district, we have a form the student has to sign verifing they have all the latest updates and virus software, but they are also required to hand over the laptop to the tech so we can check it from the District’s perspective. This only works, though, if the student feels like following procedures and asking for assistance. Another problem with this could be any future problems with that student’s laptop could be attributed back to the tech.

]]> By: Rich http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6138 Rich Tue, 03 Oct 2006 02:17:02 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6138 You know, the more I think about it the more I have to agree with Shareski.... it's just a matter of time until wireless (in some form) becomes so ubiquitous that the security issues melt into the background. I don't doubt that right now wireless security in the K12 environment is expensive and maintenance intensive. But when the "outside world" wireless Internet eventually encroaches on our school campuses, all of our dealing with security, filtering, etc. will diminish. The pedagogical issues really do come to the forefront. You know, the more I think about it the more I have to agree with Shareski…. it’s just a matter of time until wireless (in some form) becomes so ubiquitous that the security issues melt into the background. I don’t doubt that right now wireless security in the K12 environment is expensive and maintenance intensive. But when the “outside world” wireless Internet eventually encroaches on our school campuses, all of our dealing with security, filtering, etc. will diminish.

The pedagogical issues really do come to the forefront.

]]> By: shareski http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6112 shareski Mon, 02 Oct 2006 05:56:58 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6112 As Kurt mentioned, the advent of wireless broadband accounts will add another twist to this situation. Students and teachers may not even ask for access, there may be a wireless hotspot in the neighbourhood. With some cities offering free wireless, who needs the school's? The security issues can likely be resolved the pedagogical ones are more challenging. As Kurt mentioned, the advent of wireless broadband accounts will add another twist to this situation. Students and teachers may not even ask for access, there may be a wireless hotspot in the neighbourhood. With some cities offering free wireless, who needs the school’s?
The security issues can likely be resolved the pedagogical ones are more challenging.

]]> By: Barry Stewart http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6111 Barry Stewart Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:42:38 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6111 The technology for safely* conneting a personally owned device to a network is availble today. The caveats to deploying this technology today are: - cost... these systems are EXTREMELY expensive. - cost... these systems require highly trained staff to operate i.e can you say HUGE salaries. - IT Department staff size would have to grow to support this model. - VERY few K-12 school divisions could have staff capable of installing, configuring and maintaining these types of complex systems. - NO ONE can guarantee that their network will not be comprimised regardless of the technology the deploy (i.e. can afford). IMHO this model is NOT RFPT (Ready For Prime Time) right now. Barry Stewart Information Technology Manager Prairie South School Division No. 210 The technology for safely* conneting a personally owned device to a network is availble today. The caveats to deploying this technology today are:
- cost… these systems are EXTREMELY expensive.
- cost… these systems require highly trained staff to operate i.e can you say HUGE salaries.
- IT Department staff size would have to grow to support this model.
- VERY few K-12 school divisions could have staff capable of installing, configuring and maintaining these types of complex systems.
- NO ONE can guarantee that their network will not be comprimised regardless of the technology the deploy (i.e. can afford).

IMHO this model is NOT RFPT (Ready For Prime Time) right now.

Barry Stewart
Information Technology Manager
Prairie South School Division No. 210

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6105 Anna Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:43:00 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6105 I like the idea of an applet being installed that basically scans a computer for viruses and makes sure software updates have been run. Kurt makes a good point about the access cards. We have ClearWire in this area and it's very easy for a teacher to bring that to school and have access to the Internet on a personally owned machine bypassing our network. That doesn't bother me TOO much at this point because if that machine becomes infected, it's not on MY network. I do realize though that the web content would no longer be filtered through the district. I haven't had to worry about this yet, so I'm glad this is being brought up. I'm still curious how the issue of software licensing would be handled. If we have a school/site license, would it include teacher owned machines and how do you cya when a teacher leaves the school/district? Or do you just not install on teacher owned machines? I like the idea of an applet being installed that basically scans a computer for viruses and makes sure software updates have been run.

Kurt makes a good point about the access cards. We have ClearWire in this area and it’s very easy for a teacher to bring that to school and have access to the Internet on a personally owned machine bypassing our network. That doesn’t bother me TOO much at this point because if that machine becomes infected, it’s not on MY network.

I do realize though that the web content would no longer be filtered through the district. I haven’t had to worry about this yet, so I’m glad this is being brought up.

I’m still curious how the issue of software licensing would be handled. If we have a school/site license, would it include teacher owned machines and how do you cya when a teacher leaves the school/district? Or do you just not install on teacher owned machines?

]]> By: Alan Stange http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6104 Alan Stange Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:24:10 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6104 we seem to be able to move data around so freely these days that connecting a personal lap top to the institutional network seems almost unimportant. If we eventually have a web portal that allows us to access from anywhere, does this negate the problem? I'm a Palm person with a home computer. I think there is little more that I need. we seem to be able to move data around so freely these days that connecting a personal lap top to the institutional network seems almost unimportant. If we eventually have a web portal that allows us to access from anywhere, does this negate the problem? I’m a Palm person with a home computer. I think there is little more that I need.

]]> By: Kurt Paccio http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6077 Kurt Paccio Sun, 01 Oct 2006 00:00:02 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6077 When a student or staff asks to connect to the district network the following questions come to mind: 1. Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that your computer is virus and spyware free? Most answer yes to that question. We most certainly cannot afford the quarantine methods used by colleges. 1.5 Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that your computer is/will not run any program that will negatively impact District network operations? 2. Are you willing to hold the district harmless if your computer becomes infected while using the District network? 3. Are you willing to be held liable if your computer infects the district computers with a virus or spyware either intentionally or accidentally? My technology department is bare bones and short staffed as it is. Cleaning up infections from personnally owned computers is WAY out of our range of services. 4. Are you willing to provide the district with administrative access to your computer to check for inappropriate content? I'm really not interested in accessing the computer but should an incident happen... A staff member, after considering these questions once asked if there was ANY way he/she could get connected. I said, "SURE. Just donate your computer to the District. We'll get it cleaned up, certify the software, and issue it back to you with our network (and security) settings in place." There is one element that I worry about that I'm sure is coming our way. Wireless broadband cards. Suppose a student or staff member has a laptop with wireless broadband (Verizon, Sprint, Cingular all offer them.) We certainly can't comply with CIPA, COPPA, FERPA under those conditions. Get your policy committee ready because it's coming. Great discussion. When a student or staff asks to connect to the district network the following questions come to mind:

1. Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that your computer is virus and spyware free?
Most answer yes to that question. We most certainly cannot afford the quarantine methods used by colleges.

1.5 Can you guarantee with 100% certainty that your computer is/will not run any program that will negatively impact District network operations?

2. Are you willing to hold the district harmless if your computer becomes infected while using the District network?

3. Are you willing to be held liable if your computer infects the district computers with a virus or spyware either intentionally or accidentally? My technology department is bare bones and short staffed as it is. Cleaning up infections from personnally owned computers is WAY out of our range of services.

4. Are you willing to provide the district with administrative access to your computer to check for inappropriate content? I’m really not interested in accessing the computer but should an incident happen…

A staff member, after considering these questions once asked if there was ANY way he/she could get connected. I said, “SURE. Just donate your computer to the District. We’ll get it cleaned up, certify the software, and issue it back to you with our network (and security) settings in place.”

There is one element that I worry about that I’m sure is coming our way. Wireless broadband cards. Suppose a student or staff member has a laptop with wireless broadband (Verizon, Sprint, Cingular all offer them.)
We certainly can’t comply with CIPA, COPPA, FERPA under those conditions.

Get your policy committee ready because it’s coming.

Great discussion.

]]> By: Rich http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6074 Rich Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:55:34 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6074 I'm at a private K-8 school (400+ students); we haven't really had to deal with student laptops very much yet but I agree that we will eventually need to do so. Clearly, your concerns for security in the various different modes <b>are</b> significant, and I would hope that we will be prepared to address them when our students do start bringing in their laptops. I believe that setting up a virtual LAN will help to keep our data files somewhat protected, but how <b>do</b> we come to some basic level of virus and spyware protection? I visited a small college this summer, where I could use my laptop either via a hardwired connection to their LAN, or I could use wireless. In either case, within about 30 seconds of connecting, I was forced to a web page requiring me to install an applet that proceeded to check my machine for the presence of antivirus and antispyware programs, and for Windows updates (apparently Mac users don't have to put up with the screening, at least at this point). After spending a couple of minutes installing the applet (and rebooting....), my laptop was pronounced "safe" and I could proceed to use the web. I assume that this runs via their proxy server so that no one can avoid it. I’m at a private K-8 school (400+ students); we haven’t really had to deal with student laptops very much yet but I agree that we will eventually need to do so. Clearly, your concerns for security in the various different modes are significant, and I would hope that we will be prepared to address them when our students do start bringing in their laptops. I believe that setting up a virtual LAN will help to keep our data files somewhat protected, but how do we come to some basic level of virus and spyware protection?

I visited a small college this summer, where I could use my laptop either via a hardwired connection to their LAN, or I could use wireless. In either case, within about 30 seconds of connecting, I was forced to a web page requiring me to install an applet that proceeded to check my machine for the presence of antivirus and antispyware programs, and for Windows updates (apparently Mac users don’t have to put up with the screening, at least at this point). After spending a couple of minutes installing the applet (and rebooting….), my laptop was pronounced “safe” and I could proceed to use the web. I assume that this runs via their proxy server so that no one can avoid it.

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6073 Anna Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:54:41 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6073 How do you handle software purchases? I might get a school license for a particular software. So it can go on those teacher purchased machines, no? But then the teacher moves. Do you make sure you uninstall the software before they leave? Or do those computers not get the benefit of software purchased by the school? We have a very high turnover here because we're right next to, and include the children of, a very large military installation. I'm just wondering how that would work. How do you handle software purchases? I might get a school license for a particular software. So it can go on those teacher purchased machines, no? But then the teacher moves. Do you make sure you uninstall the software before they leave? Or do those computers not get the benefit of software purchased by the school? We have a very high turnover here because we’re right next to, and include the children of, a very large military installation. I’m just wondering how that would work.

]]> By: Lorne http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6066 Lorne Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:25:18 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6066 Our division has a program in place by which the division contributes $500 to each teacher that wishes to purchase a personal laptop. The laptops are a bulk purchase item, and each teacher can take advantage of the program every third year. The laptop becomes the personal property of the teacher on the understanding that they will use it in school as well as at home. It's a good deal for the school division because they have to spend less supplying teacher laptops, and it's a good deal for the teacher because they get a subsidized computer. It's a win/win deal and has been very popular. The time spent troubleshooting has been minimal and easy to manage. In addition, there are some teachers that use computers at school purchased outside this program with minimal disruption to the system. Our division has a program in place by which the division contributes $500 to each teacher that wishes to purchase a personal laptop. The laptops are a bulk purchase item, and each teacher can take advantage of the program every third year. The laptop becomes the personal property of the teacher on the understanding that they will use it in school as well as at home. It’s a good deal for the school division because they have to spend less supplying teacher laptops, and it’s a good deal for the teacher because they get a subsidized computer. It’s a win/win deal and has been very popular. The time spent troubleshooting has been minimal and easy to manage.

In addition, there are some teachers that use computers at school purchased outside this program with minimal disruption to the system.

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6065 Anna Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:02:28 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6065 I guess I'm used to a very paranoid district. :) But I see that if we did that, we'd spend less on laptops. Do you find yourself troubleshooting personally owned machines a lot? I guess I’m used to a very paranoid district. :) But I see that if we did that, we’d spend less on laptops. Do you find yourself troubleshooting personally owned machines a lot?

]]> By: Lorne http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6058 Lorne Sat, 30 Sep 2006 04:46:50 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6058 Our division not only allows but encourages staff to use their own laptops at school. These computers are given the same access to the school network that that teacher would have on a school owned machine. The same goes for PDA's etc. This has been the policy for some years now. There is now a very significant percentage of division staff doing this. The same basic policy is in place for students. They are given the same rights with their own machines that they would have with a school owned computer. Obviously, there is a smaller percentage of students doing this. Our division not only allows but encourages staff to use their own laptops at school. These computers are given the same access to the school network that that teacher would have on a school owned machine. The same goes for PDA’s etc. This has been the policy for some years now. There is now a very significant percentage of division staff doing this.

The same basic policy is in place for students. They are given the same rights with their own machines that they would have with a school owned computer. Obviously, there is a smaller percentage of students doing this.

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6057 Anna Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:34:27 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6057 *I* don't have a way to allow Internet access without network access. Not sure if the district does. I think if we continue to provide what the students need to get their work done, they won't need to demand access through their own machines. Well, they might still demand, but I wouldn't feel morally/ethically/educationally obligated to provide that access. *I* don’t have a way to allow Internet access without network access. Not sure if the district does.

I think if we continue to provide what the students need to get their work done, they won’t need to demand access through their own machines. Well, they might still demand, but I wouldn’t feel morally/ethically/educationally obligated to provide that access.

]]> By: shareski http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6056 shareski Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:28:45 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6056 Can the they have internet access? Also, my issue still is that sooner or later, we will have to address this. Students will begin to demand access with their own machines. It may not be urgent now, but I'm willing to bet that within 3 years, we will be forced to deal. I'd like to be forward thinking in this area and still provide safe, reliable access for all. Can the they have internet access?

Also, my issue still is that sooner or later, we will have to address this. Students will begin to demand access with their own machines. It may not be urgent now, but I’m willing to bet that within 3 years, we will be forced to deal. I’d like to be forward thinking in this area and still provide safe, reliable access for all.

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6055 Anna Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:46:56 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6055 I think maintenance on that would be a nightmare. Making sure they have the software, making sure the software is updated... I work in an elementary school so not much worry about kids bringing laptops. But even with just teachers, as a tech, I wouldn't want to have to keep up with all of that. Maybe if the network still requires the tech to set up on the laptop so that teachers can't just bring any machine and start using it... Hasn't come up but a few times on my campus so far - mostly with desktops - but teachers have so far been okay when I tell them they can't be on the network. I think maintenance on that would be a nightmare. Making sure they have the software, making sure the software is updated… I work in an elementary school so not much worry about kids bringing laptops. But even with just teachers, as a tech, I wouldn’t want to have to keep up with all of that. Maybe if the network still requires the tech to set up on the laptop so that teachers can’t just bring any machine and start using it… Hasn’t come up but a few times on my campus so far – mostly with desktops – but teachers have so far been okay when I tell them they can’t be on the network.

]]> By: shareski http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6052 shareski Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:43:05 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6052 Could this be resolved by requiring teachers/students to have certain security/virus software installed? Could this be resolved by requiring teachers/students to have certain security/virus software installed?

]]> By: Anna http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-6051 Anna Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:44:14 +0000 http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/09/29/personal-laptops-in-schools/#comment-6051 Our district does not allow personal devices to use the district's network. We have teachers that bring their own computers but they are stand-alone machines. Even my PDA can't *officially* connect to the network but then I'm the tech person and I know the network info and password. :) I think this is different than sending teachers home with a district owned laptop they will use on their own network and bringing it back to school. The district has it's own virus scanning and software updates are done automatically. No guarantees on a teacher's OWN machine. There's much more potential for issues with viruses and spyware that way. Our district does not allow personal devices to use the district’s network. We have teachers that bring their own computers but they are stand-alone machines. Even my PDA can’t *officially* connect to the network but then I’m the tech person and I know the network info and password. :)

I think this is different than sending teachers home with a district owned laptop they will use on their own network and bringing it back to school. The district has it’s own virus scanning and software updates are done automatically. No guarantees on a teacher’s OWN machine. There’s much more potential for issues with viruses and spyware that way.

]]>