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	<title>Comments on: I talk too much</title>
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	<description>Learning stuff since 1964</description>
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		<title>By: We got it wrong &#124; Ideas and Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-45575</link>
		<dc:creator>We got it wrong &#124; Ideas and Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/#comment-45575</guid>
		<description>[...] jump quickly from one idea to the next without recognizing the need to process. I did document it here. This certainly isn&#8217;t the only mistake and while it&#8217;s not very specific, it&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] jump quickly from one idea to the next without recognizing the need to process. I did document it here. This certainly isn&#8217;t the only mistake and while it&#8217;s not very specific, it&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Muir</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-2987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/#comment-2987</guid>
		<description>Dean,
I can empathize.  I&#039;m also a professional developer and I&#039;m always torn between what I want to tell them, what I want them to discover and explore, and what I want them to have a chance to do.

But it isn&#039;t as easy as just showing the demo and letting participants play.  Workshops shouldn&#039;t focus on the hardware and the software - they need to focus on how you teach content with the technology.  The real power is using the technology to learn, not learning to use the technology.  In Maine, we moved away from workshops on spreadsheets, for example, to workshops on data analysis (of course, using spreadsheets!).

But talk has another role, too.  I just got back from doing three days of inservice for a small group of folks in a 1to1 program outside of Houston.  I wanted to customize it to their needs, but I knew that I couldn&#039;t just walk in and ask them what they wanted to learn.  Many of them wouldn&#039;t know.

I have a colleague, Jim Moulton, who likes to point out that you can&#039;t learn something until you know you don&#039;t know it.  He calls this condition &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edutopia.org/community/spiralnotebook/?p=31&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;metacluelessness&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;  I had to spend the first day doing demos, explorations, presentations and activities with the expressed purpose of raising the participants&#039; level of metacluelessness - to give them a sense (in a productive, supportive way) of what they didn&#039;t know.

The rest of the inservice was awesome, because we spent the time learning about what they wanted to learn. (and they spent a lot of time doing and we all spent time talking.)

I do think it is important for teachers to know why a strategy is important, not just how to do it.  Otherwise it gets implemented just because it&#039;s cool or neat.

So let&#039;s both talk more and talk less....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean,<br />
I can empathize.  I&#8217;m also a professional developer and I&#8217;m always torn between what I want to tell them, what I want them to discover and explore, and what I want them to have a chance to do.</p>
<p>But it isn&#8217;t as easy as just showing the demo and letting participants play.  Workshops shouldn&#8217;t focus on the hardware and the software &#8211; they need to focus on how you teach content with the technology.  The real power is using the technology to learn, not learning to use the technology.  In Maine, we moved away from workshops on spreadsheets, for example, to workshops on data analysis (of course, using spreadsheets!).</p>
<p>But talk has another role, too.  I just got back from doing three days of inservice for a small group of folks in a 1to1 program outside of Houston.  I wanted to customize it to their needs, but I knew that I couldn&#8217;t just walk in and ask them what they wanted to learn.  Many of them wouldn&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I have a colleague, Jim Moulton, who likes to point out that you can&#8217;t learn something until you know you don&#8217;t know it.  He calls this condition &#8220;<a href="http://www.edutopia.org/community/spiralnotebook/?p=31" rel="nofollow">metacluelessness</a>.&#8221;  I had to spend the first day doing demos, explorations, presentations and activities with the expressed purpose of raising the participants&#8217; level of metacluelessness &#8211; to give them a sense (in a productive, supportive way) of what they didn&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>The rest of the inservice was awesome, because we spent the time learning about what they wanted to learn. (and they spent a lot of time doing and we all spent time talking.)</p>
<p>I do think it is important for teachers to know why a strategy is important, not just how to do it.  Otherwise it gets implemented just because it&#8217;s cool or neat.</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s both talk more and talk less&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Fryer</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-2972</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Fryer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/#comment-2972</guid>
		<description>If you had some teachers walk away enthused about even one &quot;takeaway,&quot; then you succeeded. And it sounds like you did.

I agree with Alan that it&#039;s impossible to accommodate everyone in a workshop, so I think the key is differentiating what you do to provide options and variety. I am starting to provide more discussion/conversation time for participants, whether it is with the person next to them or at their table if they are seated that way. I am finding it very helpful to break up longer lecture/demo times with short (1-2 min) times for people to talk with someone, and then share with the group voluntarily.

Enjoy Yellowstone! And don&#039;t leave your camera behind in the cafeteria! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you had some teachers walk away enthused about even one &#8220;takeaway,&#8221; then you succeeded. And it sounds like you did.</p>
<p>I agree with Alan that it&#8217;s impossible to accommodate everyone in a workshop, so I think the key is differentiating what you do to provide options and variety. I am starting to provide more discussion/conversation time for participants, whether it is with the person next to them or at their table if they are seated that way. I am finding it very helpful to break up longer lecture/demo times with short (1-2 min) times for people to talk with someone, and then share with the group voluntarily.</p>
<p>Enjoy Yellowstone! And don&#8217;t leave your camera behind in the cafeteria! <img src='http://ideasandthoughts.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jetech3</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-2969</link>
		<dc:creator>jetech3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/#comment-2969</guid>
		<description>I completely agree that teachers need context. As the technology integration specialist for my school, I find that teachers can get excited about many aspects of technology (new/old, read/web, whatever), but are finding them difficult to implement. I struggle with this daily!

However, it was not so long ago that I was a classroom teacher and I remember wanting to &quot;get my hands on&quot; whatever was being presented in workshops; especially when it came to technology!

I find it helpful to show examples of student work (or application of a technology) first, then talk a little about context, answer burning questions, then move to the hands on. Sometimes this is difficult to do in 1.5 hours.

I find most teachers can picture how they will use a technology when they see how others are using it.

The struggle continues. If you are even thinking about this kind of issue, it shows that you are a thoughtful, reflective educator. Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree that teachers need context. As the technology integration specialist for my school, I find that teachers can get excited about many aspects of technology (new/old, read/web, whatever), but are finding them difficult to implement. I struggle with this daily!</p>
<p>However, it was not so long ago that I was a classroom teacher and I remember wanting to &#8220;get my hands on&#8221; whatever was being presented in workshops; especially when it came to technology!</p>
<p>I find it helpful to show examples of student work (or application of a technology) first, then talk a little about context, answer burning questions, then move to the hands on. Sometimes this is difficult to do in 1.5 hours.</p>
<p>I find most teachers can picture how they will use a technology when they see how others are using it.</p>
<p>The struggle continues. If you are even thinking about this kind of issue, it shows that you are a thoughtful, reflective educator. Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/comment-page-1/#comment-2966</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideasandthoughts.org/2006/07/25/i-talk-too-much/#comment-2966</guid>
		<description>Rules are to be broken, and Levine usually violates his own so-called law.

Frankly I have given up the notion I can reach everyone in a workshop to their individual needs, and just hope some good guesses will entice, interest, at least a majority, or more than a few yawners. After all, it is as much up to them as it is to you.

One pitfall I fall into is being too concerned that the participants in a workshop clikc with everything at the time of the workshop. Some will, you know the type, the eager beavers in the front row sitting on the edge of their seats. But for others, you are just as liekly planting seeds that may not sprout until you/they are long gone, and even if they seem dazed, just try and assume the seeds have at least been tossed into the ground.

Having all the material in a wiki for the &quot;come-backers&quot; will go a long way.

So just &lt;em&gt;fuggedaboudit&lt;/em&gt;, and go to Yellowstone, with lots of room on your digital camera and plenty of batteries. Dispense right a way of the need to visit the standard geysers, and try and hit the side roads,  hike any of the back country trails. The magic unfolds as you get away from the crowds!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rules are to be broken, and Levine usually violates his own so-called law.</p>
<p>Frankly I have given up the notion I can reach everyone in a workshop to their individual needs, and just hope some good guesses will entice, interest, at least a majority, or more than a few yawners. After all, it is as much up to them as it is to you.</p>
<p>One pitfall I fall into is being too concerned that the participants in a workshop clikc with everything at the time of the workshop. Some will, you know the type, the eager beavers in the front row sitting on the edge of their seats. But for others, you are just as liekly planting seeds that may not sprout until you/they are long gone, and even if they seem dazed, just try and assume the seeds have at least been tossed into the ground.</p>
<p>Having all the material in a wiki for the &#8220;come-backers&#8221; will go a long way.</p>
<p>So just <em>fuggedaboudit</em>, and go to Yellowstone, with lots of room on your digital camera and plenty of batteries. Dispense right a way of the need to visit the standard geysers, and try and hit the side roads,  hike any of the back country trails. The magic unfolds as you get away from the crowds!</p>
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